D-Play: Walking Backwards

[xDKx]

I was recently having a discussion with some Syracuse players, and they mentioned that a lot of penalties were being given at the ECT for walking backwards. I said that I supposed in some circumstances, like going through a door or across a hallway that could be dangerous play, but if there was no one behind, or it was up against a wall, I said that I don't know that I'd call it dangerous play, since the wording on the rule is so discretionary.

So my question would be, is walking backwards inherently dangerous, or is it circumstantial? I just find it odd that a player would get like five penalties for walking backwards over the course of a round--was it really that great a danger all five times?

[beanz]

I was recently having a discussion with some Syracuse players, and they mentioned that a lot of penalties were being given at the ECT for walking backwards. I said that I supposed in some circumstances, like going through a door or across a hallway that could be dangerous play, but if there was no one behind, or it was up against a wall, I said that I don't know that I'd call it dangerous play, since the wording on the rule is so discretionary.

So my question would be, is walking backwards inherently dangerous, or is it circumstantial? I just find it odd that a player would get like five penalties for walking backwards over the course of a round--was it really that great a danger all five times?

All five times i did it was to (1) let someone out and (2) when i was backing in to a corner of a wall. The legit penalty was when i got called for chasing. Everyone's natural reaction is to walk backwards when you get hit. So if you pose no danger, then why is it being called. It had cost us a game because of it when there was no one around.

[LaJou]

Funny story, true story. I was about to ask the same question and then saw this one. We did have a situation where someone was running backwards down a hall in Detroit. I just dont remember who it was and we told them that would be concidered dangerous play as you were running backwards. Walking backwards to me is a diffrent thing all together. Provided the distance is small, a few steps and the person walking was was believed to have a reasonable idea who or what is behind them then I would not call the panalty. But that is me. In the way Beanz describes the penalty I would have to say we are being a touchy but that is just me.

[beanz]

I took at max 3 steps backwards. No one was behind me. Walking backwards, not running.

[troyoda]

Unless you get in someones way, walk backwards very quickly or do it through doorway then I do not think it should be a dangerous play.

I walk backwards all the time to get a better shot or to make sure I'm showing a shoulder sensor.

[xThanatoSx]

5. DANGEROUS PLAY (*)

A player may not play in a manner likely to unreasonably endanger the safety of other players.

Given how you're describing the nature of your movement, I can't see how you'd be infringing on this rule.

[LaJou]

I would say that the key portion of that rule is, "unreasonably." It is understood that any movement around the arena is going to cause a certian amount of risk.

[xDKx]

I would say that the key portion of that rule is, "unreasonably." It is understood that any movement around the arena is going to cause a certian amount of risk.

Agreed. I would argue that even in the incident where I lost my teeth, neither Cordash nor I were acting in an unreasonably dangerous manner. The collision just happened to occur around a corner when he and my phaser were at such an angle that the corner went directly into my face.

[pintsize]

I believe the reason they've been so tight on that is the fact that there are so many openings and mini hallways in their arena that there is a high chance to back into someone coming through.
We only call that penalty if there was more than 3 steps, I had only called this penalty once-which was not on beanz, because it was a substantial amount of steps backwords without them looking.

But there is just so many openings and corners around that place it would be pretty easy to run into someone while walking backwords, which is why they're really stressing the running rule also.

[Ice Queen]

which is why they're really stressing the running rule also.

'Running rule'?????

what running rule? i'm glad we dont have a running rule, cos i would have been done 100 times over at the ANZAC nats this year!

[xDKx]

which is why they're really stressing the running rule also.

'Running rule'?????

what running rule? i'm glad we dont have a running rule, cos i would have been done 100 times over at the ANZAC nats this year!

By "running" I mean moving at a speed deemed to be unsafe. There's running and there's running. It's the same rule you guys use (Dangerous Play).

[troyoda]

There's running and there's running. It's the same rule you guys use (Dangerous Play).

I believe this "running" is referred to as "the speed of wardog" in Brisbane.

[lucky]

which is why they're really stressing the running rule also.

'Running rule'?????

what running rule? i'm glad we dont have a running rule, cos i would have been done 100 times over at the ANZAC nats this year!

By "running" I mean moving at a speed deemed to be unsafe. There's running and there's running. It's the same rule you guys use (Dangerous Play).

I was thinking about this the other day DK.
Would you consider what we do at the start of each game "running"
Pretty much red and blue move as fast as they can to get to the playing area/resup areas as quickly as possible.
Now, If someone did that at any other point in the game I may consider it dangerous play. But is it ok because it is the begining and we know there is no chance you are going to hurt someone (with the exception of a few people slipping) by moving that quick?

[xDKx]

That's an interesting point, Lucky. Because the rule doesn't define running itself as dangerous. And from a discretionary point, we all know there is not going to be anyone around a corner when we take off up the ramps at the start. So I guess it's not dangerous circumstantially, even though we would probably classify that speed as dangerous at other points during the game, precisely because there is a reasonable chance someone might be around that same corner.

The rule:

A player may not play in a manner likely to unreasonably endanger the safety of other players.

Emphasis mine. I think that "unreasonably" part is the crux of the matter. Running up the ramps when no one could possibly be at the top won't unreasonably endanger anyone, I don't think. What an interesting paradox...

[lucky]

yea, my thoughts exactly.

Personally I think it is ok what we do in the begining of the game. It's a resonable risk IMO. Sure someone could get hurt, but chances are they will only hurt themself.

However, if I saw someone do that at any other time during the game, I am pretty sure I could call them for it, or at the very least warn them about it.

[LaJou]

I thought we had talked about this before. But as I can see the arguements coming I wanted to head them off. There are situations and moments when it is ok to do crazy things that would at other times be completely out of the question. In the situation you are talking about there is no possible way someone could be coming down the ramp as the game just started. ON the other hand. IF the Red team RAN to the Green ramp in an attempt to cut off the green team from getting to the ramp. I would then call that player for dangerous play as they would be running into a location where it is very likely for people to be.

[beanz]

A prime example of walking backwards was this years nats, when we used back tracking on the ramps. IDk about you but I definitly walked bakwards up the ramp.

[DoNotPassGo]

What happened at the Syracuse Tournament early on was that people we being called for shooting/targeting while walking backwards. I personaly was called twice one game while i was in a corner and walking backwards knowing there was no one behind me. A lot of the backwalking calls were unnecessary in my opinion.

What was happening was because so many people were being called on more little events of it, the calling for it became more strict as people wanted everything to be called "the same". After the first day though... after each match it usually ended up with the refs talking a bit after the matches explain their idea of backwalking and how they call it.

Me personaly would call it if the person took more 4-5 "knowing" steps backwards, and usually if I was watching the scene play out and and I knew that player was being shot at from behind and they were not endangering another player, then I would not call it.

The calls got less strict as the tournament progressed, but it still seemed a big extreme at times. But, as expected, reffing is all point of view, opinion, and what they believed happened so it's not like there wasn't any expected

[tragedy]

Me personaly would call it if the person took more 4-5 "knowing" steps backwards, and usually if I was watching the scene play out and and I knew that player was being shot at from behind and they were not endangering another player, then I would not call it.

Wow. Just so ridiculous. Seriously? WALKING backwards? ffs it's just as if not MORE dangerous to walk around a corner. You might as well call that for dangerous play too. "Why?" I hear you ask.

Let me tell you :- if you're calling "walking backwards" dangerous it will be because you cannot see what's behind you or where you are going. The same can be said for turning a corner. You cannot see what's there and you could possibly run into something/someone coming the other way.

maaaan. pull your heads in

[DoNotPassGo]

OK apparently you're offended by me calling it "walking backwards" but tragically enough... THAT is what it was being called on during the tournament. If i was not called twice on it in one match understand low dangering circumstances then I honestly would have not called any for the rest of the tourny.

That is just what basically happened in the beginning though. It so many unnesessary calls weren't actualy called then it wouldn't have snowballed into a "Oh, I would have been called on that..." fest.

Sorry for offending you but it was happening to every team, causing every team to start calling more and more of them. Yes it did calm down later on as we all realized how out of hand it was getting, but that is what happened and I was just reporting that. I didn't think it was right, but that's what happened. I was also in favor of the 10,000 point rule but because it didn't get passed am I at blame for that too???

[tragedy]

I was not "offended" by you calling it "walking backwards." I'm simply amazed at the pettiness of the group/owner/whoever wanting to penalise such a low-grade action

[Nalang]

I see both sides of this arguement but I am going to side with Traj on this one.
If I'm walking backwards, whether in or out of a laser tag arena, it's because I already know what is behind me and know that there is no chance I might run into someone or something.

If I start walking backwards and I know no one is behind me at all, I will walk backwards for maybe 10 to 15 steps, most of the time without looking behind me.

If I get called for "walking backards" when I know for a fact I will not be endangering anyone in the arena(including myself), I will argue that point until I lose my voice.

[PrivateJoker]

To be fair, some of the backwards walking penalties were legitimate, because they weren't paying attention to what was behind them and backed directly into another player. There was another one where a player who got eliminated clipped his phaser to his vest, turned around and walked directly into a wall, resulting in a pretty violent collision. The only people involved were that player, and the wall, but he hit it pretty hard. He was penalized because he clearly wasn't paying enough attention to his surroundings to avoid colliding with other players.

But yes, many were called rather pointlessly.

[troyoda]

I wanna see Trag's reaction if he got penalised for this ingame! haha

[Shadow Dagger]

wow, Traj against a rule enforcement?

...must be not worth the time to get all over it...

"D-Play... You know what's D-Play?...
People. People are D-Play..."

Who's in to reenact The Most Dangerous Game? Anyone?